2013 Rule Book Discussion

SCCBC doesn't know how to do it, either. They use the same methodology we do. The thing is, someone could be tested in the pits and pass, then go back to their pit, slip on a loud can and go out and race with a couple extra HP. The place to catch them is on the track.

SCCBC has the same problem we do with guys getting meatballed for noise, pulling into their pit, doing nothing about it and going back out in the next session.

We could attempt to develop a testing methodology (i.e, during a dyno run) but it wouldn't be the final test; that would be on the track under racing conditions.

 

With the inclusion of this clause in Chapter 7: No Graduated Novices (exceptions can be made by the Competition Committee) we have in effect created two classes of graduated novice, “worthy” and “unworthy”. Those deemed “worthy” may compete in races other than novice, those deemed “unworthy” may not. And this determination is made according to unspecified rules.

So, in my case I can only be assured of running novice races (with all of the limitations that invokes) in 2013 and may be allowed to participate in other events.

Paradoxically, as an intermediate under the old rules, I would have been allowed to run in other events.

Furthermore, Rule 3.3 states:

3.3 The Expert rider classification refers to riders with a high level of skill and experience. To advance from Graduated Novice to Expert status, please see the rules above. All riders will be evaluated for status advancement at the end of each season and only under special circumstances will a rider be advanced in mid-season. The Executive and riders rep reserve the right to advance any rider after due consideration.

It would seem from this statement that one needs to follow exactly the same rules as outlined in 3.2 (i.e. 8 races, etc.) to move from graduated novice to expert as one needs to follow to move from novice to graduated novice.

 

Correct me if i'm wrong. Intermediates that completed the full season this year 2012, will be white number plate experts next year. Graduated novices from this year, will start at the back of the expert grid next year, still with yellow plates and " high visibility" vests, for at least 3 race weekends, than can apply for full expert status?

 

... ummm, I don't think that's quite what the rules say, ...

... but it's pretty clear where this is going.

 

That's my understanding Randy. The rules committee is trying to make things safer and easier for our limited staff of gridding and scoring volunteers.

 

Jerry you did make Intermediate at the end of the season.So for the 2013 season you can move up to expert or go in the graduated novice class. With your 848 and your lap times for Aug 2012 you can race 600SS Open SS and Sportsman.
I have absolutely no problem dealing with lap traffic, however in a 12 lap race no one should be lap twice under normal racing conditions. Yes this is" club racing" but lap time guidelines are for everyone safety.
I guess if Simon had his way everyone would race together no matter what bike or level of the rider.

 

Thank you for your response, Ken.

 

Hi, I am a EMRA rider and I am planning on coming out for the WCC rounds with my zx10r, I will be running the int superbike category. How is that going to place me in qualifying for the superbike grid. I have a had a couple PM's with Dean on the EMRA board and he has been very helpful. I am just curious if I am going to hafta meet the 112% mark of your Exp time or 112% of your fastest graduated Novice time in order to qualify for the WCC superbike class?

 

First of all, thanks to the Rules Committee for getting this document out in a timely manner!

I've printed it off and read it through twice and have noticed a number of areas where clarification would be most welcome -- perhaps this document should be titled "version 1.0" as clarifications & refinements will be necessary?

A few examples:
[1] Chapter 3: Classification of Riders section in particular is somewhat confusing as the Graduated Novice class (formerly Intermediate) is not well-defined. There needs to be something between Sec.3.2 Novice & Sec.3.3 Expert...
[2] Chapter 6: Riders' Clothing - it seems to say that Snell 2010 is mandatory. I *think* it means to say that Snell 2005 helmets are no longer acceptable (>5 years), but that ECE 22.05/P are OK. No mention whether JIS & BSI-A are OK (though in this earlier post they are OK'd: http://www.westwoodracing.com/forums/showthread.php?5516-Helmet-ratings
[3] Chapter 7: Competition Classes - again, somewhat confusing: I have a lot of notes in the margins. Some minor edits and restructuring for this (and sections 8-12) can fix this up.

I plan to be at the Dec.17 meeting and will try to prepare a concise list of specific questions.

I'm also willing to volunteer some time for edits if y'all could use it (I have extensive background in document & report writing).

Cheers,

Dan

PS Chapter 19 Endurance Rules - OMG YES! I hope we can schedule an Endurance Race!! When was the last time one of these was held??

 

all these people that are given the option to moving to expert or staying as a graduated novice....how do you expect them to qualify for expert races? if there thrown into an expert race could this not have an effect on safety? and what about the wcc for int. in edmonton? where do they stand?

 

Racers follow everything they are told, right Adam? You have tried to break the sound rules over the years, been black flagged and spazzed off, so did you take it like a man or a girl? Racers are racers, they read what they want to read. I won't repeat what I've said already. Just be ready to have a lot of pissed off racers and overworked officials.

Grow up Ken, that's not what I said or implied. I am soo sorry you have an issue with slower riders, maybe you can pay for all the riders that you lap and they can sit on the sidelines and watch, that way, the club won't lose any revenue or better yet, you can race in your own class and you won't have to deal with anyone but yourself!!! Sounds good to me.

 

Simon why not show up to a meeting for once.Then you can voice your opinions like everyone else.BTW I missed maybe 4 meeting in the last 7 years.I am sure I did not see you name on the sign up sheet for the rules committee.You want the help the club? You want change? You won't get it if you just voice it on a computer.

 

why does it matter ken....there was a lot of people on that signed there names on that sheet that were'nt notified of the private meeting....i really don't know what has happened with this club......i'll say it for the last time...this is a fucking club made up of many members.i understand the competiveness that the club wants to bring back....at what cost?

 

How many in the rules committee would you like Lou? The executive pick people who show up and help out at every level. And leave the drama at home!

 

Hi, I am a EMRA rider and I am planning on coming out for the WCC rounds with my zx10r, I will be running the int superbike category. How is that going to place me in qualifying for the superbike grid. I have a had a couple PM's with Dean on the EMRA board and he has been very helpful. I am just curious if I am going to hafta meet the 112% mark of your Exp time or 112% of your fastest graduated Novice time in order to qualify for the WCC superbike class?


Just curious if this question could be addressed, thanx

 

Sigh, love the discussion boys. You all have big pee pees, now put them away.

Not everyone can attend the meetings, but still deserve an explanation of the rule changes, no? For those out of town members they have no say? We would love to attend meetings more often and maybe next year we can when the kids are older and not so labour intensive. In the meantime, we still want to participate and contribute to the club, give our cash to play and have fun doing it. I am having a hard time understanding the rationale for eliminating intermediate and having a time cut-off for certain classes. Yes, lappers...however, was ANYONE getting lapped twice in the faster classes? Maybe one rider? Is that such a safety issue as to create a rule that prevents a lot of riders from entering a class or feeling like the fast guys are just that much more special than the rest of us?

It has been explained to me that the time cut-off is just a guideline, but in my opinion that just creates more of an elitist system. Either it is a rule or it isn't. So a 1:19 is okay for Superbike but a 1:19.5 isn't? Where does it end?

 

i'm hoping you weren't directing that towards me ken....like yourself i have involved myself in meetings consistenly,etc.you seem to have your own agenda....that's fine...none of my business.as i said before,the rule changes don't affect me at all.....but many others.you will not have my membership money.

 

As one of the lapee's I've got to wonder what's going on here.
I always tried to enjoy my races and looked forward to the challenge of racing in the higher levels in fact my goal was to become an expert racer as such I never had any problems with the combined grids. I wanted to get faster and turning as many laps as I felt I could and racing with the fast guys seemed a good way to do so. Although I've basically failed to go much faster, I feel the last couple years have been my best. I always raced what was allowed to me under the rulebook and no one ever said one word to me about not entering those races. In fact there were numerous times that I spoke to the faster racers that lapped me near the end of the race and I always heard positive comments that made me feel welcome to be out there racing with them. I didn’t have a single problem until Spero knocked me down. Now, with all that has been said and left unsaid frankly i'm having a hard time not taking it personal. I've always enjoyed the club & the people, I felt like it was my club. As of right now, i'm starting to feel like a second class citizen; I'm a slow racer and I can't attend meetings. I understand there will always be cliques and personal agendas but quite frankly this is a becoming a bit much. My general honest thoughts are that if you reduce the numbers of races I can enter and then choose to remove me from those races that I’m running for reasons other than a noise violation or a mechanical issue then I don't see any reason why I would want to come out and race in the first place?

 

Heres' the reference from OMMRA regarding the 120% lap times rules for NOVICES. They have the no crash rules for novices as well.

 

OK everyone, lets all relax and take a deep breath. I was at the rules committee meeting and I can honestly say that there is no personal agenda, and we most definately do not want to alienate anyone. I was initially against the elimination of the intermediate class, but I have come to accept it.

I hope I'm not speaking out of turn, but from what I recall (and believe), the following are the reasons for eliminating intermediate and incorporating lap times.

1. Gridding/scoring. By retaining the intermediate classification, gridding and scoring work is effectively double. Gail works on her own and we don't have bud and suzy anymore. There is a lot of work here.

2. Intermediate grid size. It is my observation that the intermediate grids have been declining, also, we wind up with a situation where a racer spends a bunch of money to win intermediate championships, digs himself into a heep of debt and quits racing.

3. Currently, if you are an intermediate and you choose to race down south, you are gridded as an expert. The WMRC threshold for graduating to Am has been - Are you safe? Do you know the rules of the track? OK, you are an Am. Conversely, in the US, they add "are you fast enough" or so is my understanding. By having our Intermediates automatically gridded as experts, they may be out of their depth riding in those fields. That's where the "graduate novice" classification comes in. Its not saying you are crappy or a loser, but rather your just not up to Expert speed yet - cool.

4. While we do have the WCC (for which special provisions will be made), our closest neighbours are to the south. It simply makes the most sense to try and allign ourselves more with 2 clubs that are within a 5 hour drive rather than a National series that doesn't go west of Toronto.

At the end of the day, perhaps the time cutoff needs to be eliminated. Sometimes, things seem like a good idea until you get down to speaking with the people that it actually affects.


In my opinion, I would much rather see riders start on a 250, move to an SV/EX650, then get on a 600/open bike and stay in the club longer. The carrot of "Winning Am" is putting the club in a position of people quitting after Am is over as the experts are just too fast.

Maybe I'm over rationalizing things, maybe I'm just an @sshole, but I know that I can look in the mirror and know I do not have a personal agenda. I know that as much as Ken can pop off from time to time that Ken doesn't have an agenda. The lapper scenario didn't have much bearing on the discussion at all.

That's my $0.02. I have a tough time making meetings with a young child now, and I know typing can be inconvenient. As the expert rider rep, anyone is free to give me a call and I will gladly discuss the rules with you.